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Thread: Clutch Mod with Pics (Neil aka C-Leigh Racing Mod) - Pic Heavy

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    Clutch Mod with Pics (Neil aka C-Leigh Racing Mod) - Pic Heavy

    Thought id do a write up on the Clutch mod that Neil has shared with us numerous times.

    Start off with the parts

    Quantity Part #

    1 - 400ex clutch steel plate 22321-MV4-000
    5 - Trx250r Oil drain washer 94109-12000
    5 - cr500 clutch springs 22401-ML3-910
    5 - trx250r Steels
    7 - trx250r Fibers


    Edit:
    Also thank you 250Racer for reminding me about scuffing the steel plates. Just use a fine sand paper to scuff up the surface of your plates.
    I've even heard of rubbing the plates on a concrete floor works too.

    And here is some Pictures and measurement differences of the install


    Here is the spring difference. Both Honda OEM
    CR500
    IMG_1363.JPG

    TRX250r
    IMG_1364.JPG

    400EX Steel plate
    IMG_1367.JPG

    TRX250R Steel
    IMG_1368.JPG

    400EX steel in the middle of the fibers
    IMG_1374.JPG


    '89 lifter rod and needle bearing update with the thrust washer in place
    IMG_1376.JPG

    Got all the drain plug washers lined up with the pressure plate holes.
    Make sure while tightening down the bolts the washers dont get out of alignment, could see it snapping off the clutch basket threads

    IMG_1383.JPG

    IMG_1385.JPG

    Because there was a gap with the lifter rod and the pressure plate I was able to adjust the clutch cable.
    But if you're out of adjustment slack then you can just add another thrust washer in between the needle bearing and the pressure plate

    IMG_1384.JPG
    Last edited by PNWrider; 03-02-2014 at 01:04 PM.

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    Racer kb250r's Avatar
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    That's a nice detailed write up..awsome...looks like a good sticky to me...
    Atc - 350 6mill
    Atc - 350 4mill
    Trx - 431 puma

    Engineered by C-Leigh Racing

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    Pro-X Hawaiiysr's Avatar
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    Good job

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    Administrator havinnoj's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting. We are working on a new FAQ & Tech Write Up section and this will fit in nicely. I'll move it there when the section is ready.

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    Quote Originally Posted by havinnoj View Post
    Thanks for posting. We are working on a new FAQ & Tech Write Up section and this will fit in nicely. I'll move it there when the section is ready.
    Thanks guys! Let me know if there is anything else I can add or missed.

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    CLutch mod with pics (Neil aka C-Leigh Racing mod) Pic Heavy

    since I'm New to the r what does this accomplish

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    Rider 250Racer's Avatar
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    You are forgot to add about scuffing up the steel plates .

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    Sphynx rsss396's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hickwheeler View Post
    since I'm New to the r what does this accomplish
    By adding washers to the springs you are compressing them more and increasing the spring pressure therefore increasing the clamping power of the clutch.

    By adding a thicker steel clutch plate from a 400ex you also compress the spring more and increasing the spring pressure. The reason the thicker plate compresses the springs more is the clutch plates and fibers assembly is now taller on the inner hub so the pressure plate is now pushed out farther but the springs are held in by the inner hub so with the pressure plate farther out the springs are compressed even more.

    Now you may need to add a small washer like shim behind the pressure plate to get the clutch arm located correctly because of the extra thickness, in the case of PNWrider the clutch stack is .64mm or .025" taller, this may not seem like much but that is allot in clutch arm movement. IMO a .020-.025" thick washer should be added to the push rod bearing/pressure plate

    Now IMO you can do a clutch mod a couple other ways also

    1 - add another 250r steel disc and double it up with another steel disc in the clutch assembly, normally this is installed toward the center area of the clutch assembly this will add 1.30 mm to the clutch plate and fiber stack so you will want to add about .050" shim washer at push rod bearing/pressure plate, the 250r springs can be used with mod but they get very stiff and normally just drag guy will do this
    The bad thing IMO about the extra plate is the extra rotational mass added which is normally not a good thing to add to the engine.

    2 - instead of the thicker 400ex plate in Neil's mod try finding a washer that is .025 thicker than the oil drain washer being used in Neil's kit. this will accomplish the same thing as the thicker 400ex plate without the extra rotating mass.

    Maybe Tony can cut us washers if that is possible to accomplish this
    Last edited by rsss396; 03-02-2014 at 12:05 PM.

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    Why can't I find that thrust washer on the schematic? Is it included with the lifter rod needle bearing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWrider View Post
    Thanks guys! Let me know if there is anything else I can add or missed.

    Maybe be more specific on what the clutch arm arc means, and what it should be set at? How exactly to find/measure this?

    This is a awesome write up and should most def be a sticky!! I can't tell you how many threads I've read over the years asking the same questions on this upgrade! I have had issues with getting everything adjusted properly on this setup but I can tell you it's well worth it especially when you get into the big bores

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    Pro-X zcarlson12's Avatar
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    Nice write up. Pics of the R? I really like that frame color.
    Laeger 310R

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    Supporting Member Pumashine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsss396 View Post
    By adding washers to the springs you are compressing them more and increasing the spring pressure therefore increasing the clapping power of the clutch.
    Maybe Tony can cut us washers if that is possible to accomplish this
    Yes, I will make these washers up that go onto the push-rod bearing as a shim or replacement all together. I can throw in all the aluminum oil drain plug washers for free with the shim or replacement washer. The $.50 each is 10X what they cost to make.
    Puma 408, Puma 431, Pilot 412, Puma 431, Mini-tooth 486 Trx450r
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    Sphynx rsss396's Avatar
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    Tony I think we could forget the thicker 400EX plate and shim for the push-rod bearing if you could just make the .025 thicker aluminum drain plug washers to use with the cr500 springs. I dont see a differance in the setup this way because you are creating the same amount of extra compression of the spring and it will be allot cheaper. If so you could sell these as a nice quick up grade for guys and I dont think anyone would complain about paying you .050 a piece for these, if they do then they dont deserve the the upgrade!

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    Racer mx250r91's Avatar
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    I never understood using weaker springs (CR500) and then using washers to increase their preload. Why not just use a stronger spring to begin with? If you want a strong clutch, the 88-89 springs are hard to beat. If the clutch pull is too hard, the 86-87 are a little lighter, but still stronger than the CR500 springs. I think the 400EX steel plate is a great way to get a little more life out of worn clutch discs as it makes up for the thickness lost to fiber wear.

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    Sphynx rsss396's Avatar
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    You would have to check the installed height of the 250R spring compared to a cr500 with shims to truly know and there are Barnett springs that are typically stiffer than stock.

    I actually have done this on the cr500 springs for tuning a lockup clutch and marked each set of springs with the lb rating that I read on a scale.

    I used a shipping scale and set up my milling machine travel to compress the spring at close to the installed height and noted the lbs on the scale.

    I then used these numbers to adjust the amount of clamping pressure at takeoff before the lockup clutch started to add clamping force

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allison#51 View Post
    Why can't I find that thrust washer on the schematic? Is it included with the lifter rod needle bearing?
    I've never noticed that before...good question though. I think My extra thrust washer came on the inside of my pressure plates. But sounds like Pumashine will be solving our problems again!

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    Here is a before and after measurement of adjusting the clutch arm using the clutch cable adjustments on the left side of the cylinder.

    First one is with what my previous clutch arm adjustment was set at for the stock clutch plate and spring setup

    Attachment 3805

    This is after adjusting the clutch arm, unfortunately the adjuster is on its last thread so I will be using either a thicker washer or two washers so I dont have to use the last threads of my clutch cable adjustments

    Attachment 3807

    And again here is what my clutch cable adjuster looks like

    Attachment 3808



    Here are some measurements of the washers I used

    The first is the '89 washer that came with my Hinson pressure plate

    IMG_1369.JPG

    The second is one that came off one of the older year pressure plates...not sure which, It is a little bit bigger
    IMG_1370.JPG

    I'm going to find a washer the same size as the '89 so it doesn't sit off-center of the clutch lifter because its so much bigger.

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    Racer KASEY's Avatar
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    one thing I see not addressed .. spring wire size,, since these springs are not progressive the spring rate does not increase as they get compressed more, the thicker the wire size on the spring the higher the spring rate , since a cr500 uses 6 springs and a 250r has 5 there isn't much difference in a single spring as far as spring rate goes ,
    I WANT ANIMATED GIF'S FOR MY SIGNATURE PLEASE.....

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    Racer mx250r91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allison#51 View Post
    Why can't I find that thrust washer on the schematic? Is it included with the lifter rod needle bearing?
    http://trx250r.org/showthread.php?24...clutch-upgrade

    PN. 90608-072-000

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    Sphynx rsss396's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasey View Post
    one thing I see not addressed .. spring wire size,, since these springs are not progressive the spring rate does not increase as they get compressed more, the thicker the wire size on the spring the higher the spring rate , since a cr500 uses 6 springs and a 250r has 5 there isn't much difference in a single spring as far as spring rate goes ,
    the more you compress them the more lbs you will see on a scale ( I have tested this ) and this is with no coil bind so if you shim them they will produce more clamping pressure.
    now the the untested thing here is a 250r spring compressed to the installed height and a cr500 that is shimmed the thickness of a oil drain washer and another .025" for the extra thickness of the 400EX plate since the cr500 is 2mm shorter you probably need to shim it just to equal or increase the clamping pressure

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